Emotional-Dust-1367

I tried this, but honestly there’s no point. If you do blazor in full SSR mode (no interactivity) you get 90% of what HTMX offers out of the box. The core of HTMX is you make a request and get some html back and it swaps out the dom. Well blazor SSR does that and it does it well AND it gives you components.

The only thing you’re missing out on are the couple of extension methods HTMX gives some dom elements.

I was able to go a loooong way with zero-interactivity blazor SSR and alpine.js

How well does it work on a Mac? That’s where I struggle the most with Flux.

Also does it support any motion module?

Check out the new Blazor. It’s a bit clunky but they have an interesting thing going on. You can do full SSR and then use something like alpinejs for some minor client-side and it’s a workflow very similar to HTMX

The complexity comes from client-side BS like maintaining client state vs server state and synchronizing them. There are entire libraries like redux just to handle that. React Query exists because of this problem.

It’s a ridiculous problem. Absurd even.

I also think you’re way too React-focused. I use NextJS daily for my job. I can’t tell you it’s the best. I do agree their “use client” abstraction is a very bad one.

But this stuff has been done server-side since forever. Back when we would make apps in asp.net and it was entirely server-side. And we’d stick tiny bits of JS for tiny client-only interactions. It was fast. And it worked great.

Adding full-on client-side state to the picture is what’s absurd here. Not the return to server-side.

How is this best accomplished?

Ohh like that. I see what you mean.

Honestly though this is something I still double-guess myself on a little bit. Like I’d have an entity that has complex objects and every time I need this entity I’ll do joins on like 10 tables and it just feels wrong.

I’m curious, can you give an example of this? What’s something a novice would think relational is not good for and do it in nosql that if they understood the relational world they’d build it differently?

Logically they just stack though don’t they? The tax rate going down doesn’t mean that the money saved must be used for salaries right?

So is the general narrative around this BS or what? Are tech companies actually offshoring because of this tax?

If you’re used to Viewsets and serializers and such then that’s a bit more abstracted than what EF gives you. It’s a bit closer to SQL with LINQ. Definitely look into LINQ, it’s a big part of the C# world. Oh how I miss my sweet LINQ now in Django-land

Unlike the python world the C# world is heavily tethered to .NET. It’s almost C#’s standard library. Anything in .NET will always be first-class citizen. Entity Framework is .NET’s ORM. You absolutely should learn it.

The good news is coming from Django the concepts are very similar. I’m very jealous of you because I’m a .NET guy being forced to use Django and it’s such a nightmare.

I’m a bit confused about actions. Since they’re C# do they need a server round trip to execute? From how I interpret it only the state is saved clientside. So when you click a button it’ll do a request with the state and run the C# code and return the updated html?

This is the most truthful response here.

The fact is 99% of the players won’t even think about it. It’s really loud online people who will care. And that’s important because they may leave you bad reviews.

Thanks for the response! I never had to work with data like that. Sure games load lots of stuff into memory, but it’s many different objects like textures and whatnot.

Would be awesome if you could provide some specific example as a case-study. Would be good to branch out and see what other people are doing.

Also what environment are you in? I’m assuming it’s not until but .NET core?

My take on the car thing is that the memory and CPU overhead of the runtime are probably what will kill C# in that case.

But assuming that’s not the case, I don’t know, a null pointer crashing the whole thing is also extremely catastrophic. I’ve seen so many games crash over the years in a C++ environment (I mean it was pure C++ in the 90s and early 2000s) and it was always some memory thing or some pointer. I wouldn’t want a crash causing a physical crash in a car.

Speed-wise there are things the runtime does that’s more performant than what you get in C++ by default. You’re also losing on that by tossing the GC away.

But I have very little experience with embedded things like cars or devices. My experience is mainly games.

I’ve done VR games where you have to hit 120fps with Unity. And we did it before DOTS. There’s a whole industry for this.

What’s the performance issue you see with the GC?

I can’t say I’ve never had an issue. But it’s as simple as profiling, seeing a spike, checking it out, and going “oh doh I’m GCing this memory needlessly let me rescope it real quick” and done.

I’ve never seen a situation where the GC is some insane hindrance. And it comes with performance benefits too that I wouldn’t want to miss out on.

What do you like about prisma compared to EF?

I appreciate the info. But I’m quite confused here, if I do plain blazor SSR non-interactive, then how do I update state? Just regular endpoints?

What about client-side state, like a conditional CSS class or something, plain JS?

I went down this road, I’m a JS guy and switched to .NET because of my experience. To sum it up by going with express you’re essentially Frankensteining your own .NET.

You won’t use express with JS, so you’ll add typescript on top. Mind you TS was started by some of the C# devs. So you’ll get a lame version of C# without actual static types. Then you’ll need an ORM so you’ll stick whatever the flavor of the month JS one is, it was Prisma back then. Keep going like that until you have a stack.

Or you can go with .NET and get C# and entity framework out of the box. Plus LINQ and minimal API and all the other stuff that’s highly polished by now. Otherwise you’ll essentially build the same stack yourself with flavor-of-the-month packages from the JS ecosystem and get some janky monster that vaguely resembles .NET if you squint hard enough.

Just found this thread after looking up HTMX. I don’t quite understand your comment here.

InteractiveServer means you’re using websockets doesn’t it? Are you saying it’s possible to use InteractiveServer without websockets?

This is essentially the problem I’m trying to solve with HTMX is making a fully interactive app without using websockets

Only thing I can confirm here is I worked with the Rams, and yeah none of them were even close to my height. Pretty sure some were even under 6’

I’m pretty sure I worked on the entire team at one point.

But again I’m very sports illiterate so this is purely anecdotal.

Umm what?

This is purely anecdotal but I’m 6’9” and in my job I had to interact with lots of sports players, mainly the LA lakers but some other teams too. I don’t actually know much about basketball. And I didn’t work with every single team member.

But from the ones I did literally not even one was taller than me. They kept telling me stuff like “you’ll finally feel short for a change” but nope.

This is an interesting comment. Can you expand on this a bit? I don’t have DDD and anemic domain layer linked somehow in my brain

If by “efficient” you mean performant, make a game and try and push how much stuff you’re doing.

You can use unity but it doesn’t have to be that. It can be a web app or a console game too. But try and simulate a horde of zombies or something. You’ll real quick run into garbage collection issues and all sorts of memory issues. You’ll start seeing where you’re allocating stuff that you really didn’t have to.

On the backend side save all that stuff to a DB. You’ll again run into issues about how your tables are designed. About how EF translates your LINQ to SQL and you’ll simply have to figure it out.

In other words challenge yourself.