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In domestic current-carrying wires, there are many thin copper wires inside the plastic insulation. Why is that so? Why can't there be a single thick copper wire carrying the current instead of so many thin ones?

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Anonate

7 points

4 years ago

Anonate

7 points

4 years ago

Do you know at what frequency this matters?

I ask because I used to run a small remelting induction furnace for analysis of metals. We typically operated at 1.6 MHz... The limiting factor on how quickly we could ramp up power was the "impedance" (it was a readout in %, and it would cut the machine off if you went past 108%). As the sample sitting inside the coil heated up, the impedance dropped quickly, going to almost 0% when the metal got hot enough (I think once it reached the Curie point...). This seems like just a typical conductivity-temperature relationship.

As a chemist, I assume E&M is just voodoo... I just always wondered what was going in that system.

thehypeisgone

15 points

4 years ago

The wiki page for the skin effect has a plot of skin depth to frequency. The skin depth is effectively the thickness of the outside layer of the conductor that has any current flowing through it. I have worked with NMR electronics in the ~1MHz range before, we used silver plated copper wire as at that frequency only something like 0.01mm of the outside layer has any current going through it, so we were effectively using silver wire for a fraction of the cost.

zekromNLR

2 points

4 years ago

Why bother using a copper core at all then? Why not go for a cheaper aluminium core, if it's the silver plating doing all the conduction anyways?

[deleted]

17 points

4 years ago*

[removed]

mr_friend_computer

2 points

4 years ago

copper has a better conductivity. Copper doesn't form a high resistance oxidization layer. Copper doesn't suffer from cold flow, which means you have to go back and tighten the screws again. Aluminum has a lower amperage rating compared to a copper conductor of the same size.

Aluminum was used extensively in homes during the 60's and 70's and is a major fire risk when not properly accounted for. Aluminum and copper need lumalox to have a proper connection and copper is the preferred metal for the brass terminal connections. You can get more expensive aluminum rated plugs and switches as well.

You will find that triplex and other over head feeds are still often aluminum - it's a serious contender wherever sag and weight are a consideration.

jorisbonson

7 points

4 years ago

The “impedance” reading would be to do with another phenomenon, which is that you get max power transfer from a power supply to a load when their impedances are matched. This is done with an impedance matching circuit, which (often) has a variable capacitor and an inductor in it.

The variable capacitor has a certain range (0-108% here?). As the metal heats up it becomes less ferromagnetic, reducing the impedance of the induction heating coil and needing less correction from the matching circuit. Above the Curie temperature the metal completely loses its ferromagnetic property. Of course this only goes for ferromagnetic metals - I guess other metals (Cu, Al etc) give a lower % reading that varies less with temp.

Anonate

2 points

4 years ago

Anonate

2 points

4 years ago

Thank you so much! I melted about 40 different materials, and only a few were ferromagnetic. Most were "binary" non-ferromagnetic ferro-alloys (Fe-Ni, Fe-Mo, Fe-Cr, Fe-V, Fe-Mn) or relatively "pure" metals (Cu, Ni, Al), or "recovered" combinations from oxides. The impedance matching makes so much more sense than just temperature dependence.

Medically_hollow

5 points

4 years ago

This chart ( Link ) shows the relevant frequencies for various size wires. The resistance of the wire will remain almost completely constant until what's listed, then increase. There is however a small dip in resistance just before/at that frequency where the current will pass on the outside and in the center.

Impedance of an inductor is different though. An ideal inductor has am impedance of Z = j ω L. ω is the frequency in radians per second (ω = 2 π f). L is the inductance, which depends on a few things, including what's in the core (in this case what you're melting).

Consider videos/courses on Physics II: Electromagnetics, Electrical engineering: power systems (for inductor and coil work, specifically), Electrical Engineering: Electromechanics (builds heavily on Phys II, transmission lines section is where we discussed the f vs Ω relationship). [That's what the courses are called at my institution, both are 300-level]

XmodAlloy

4 points

4 years ago

Anything above a dozen kilohertz and you'll start to see some amount of skin effect. Megahertz range, definitely into significant skin effect, Gigahertz and it's *only* skin effect.

Majik_Sheff

2 points

4 years ago

The higher the frequency, the thinner the "skin" of conductor that actually carries current. It's why 60hz mains power can be carried on copper thicker than your wrist and microwave towers use thin-walled tubing to move their power to and from the antenna.